Saturday, 2 April 2011

Illusory Reality and Breasts

Ocean Sunset
Brush Pen Mosaic

So, I've completed the second mosaic in my planned collection of twenty.  I need to do one a week to have them all ready for exhibition in September - and that's without creating cards/postcards or promoting it at all. Keep breathing, Lunar, it's all possible.

Having much enjoyed the process of creating this and sustained a 'this is working' feeling throughout, when it was actually finished, I felt disappointed. I'd worked from a photo of an actual sunset and stayed true to the colours there, but they seemed so unlikely on the canvas.

Fortunately, overnight some helpful hinky punk  (that's a Devonian pixie) had either improved the mosaic or gentled my eyes. I suspect the latter. Stepping into my bedroom to see if it was time to give a 'big banana smile' to my girl, I saw it from a greater distance; took it in as a whole, and my first thought was, yes - that is JUST how a sunset can look.

And, maybe more importantly, I liked it. Maybe it won't look 'real' to you, or you wouldn't choose to have it in your home, but I like it and that's my criterion for claiming an artwork as a success. For now at least.

And finally, you may know I'm training to be a Breastfeeding Peer Supporter with Barnardo's. At the last class, we were asked to mention it in conversation and see what reactions people have. The theory is that every time breastfeeding is mentioned, it is normalised a little, making it easier for women to do /speak about in public.

So would you please let me know how you feel about breastfeeding itself, seeing others do it, talking about it, etc? Thank you very much.

Edit: I would love to hear from men, women who haven't had a child or haven't breastfed and people who are less than easy about other folk breastfeeding in public as well as breastfeeding enthusiasts. If that doesn't cover you, I'd like to hear what you think too! Thanks. And anonymous comments are fine by me.


  1. Lovely, optimistic, full of potential- both you, and your artwork!

    Can't really comment much on breast-feeding, not having had the opportunity, but I've always appreciated it-and if truth be told, been slightly envious when other women have very naturally fed their babies in public. It's an amazing thing to be able to sustain another life with your own body. For me it is something magical, and dare I say, sacred- but certainly not something to have to do in private. Old-fashioned and hostile reactions to something so profoundly natural are hopefully on the decline.

  2. Lunie it's lovely - I think the colours work just beautifully! I find time and distance is always essential, these days I keep my mantelpiece bare so I can pop up anything I've done and am not sure about, and there is stays, catching my eye day to day, until I have decided what to change, or more often, that actually I am happy with it :-)

    As far as breastfeeding goes, I think I clocked up about 7 years almost continuous (bar a few weeks) either breastfeeding or pregnant (or both!). I fed all my three into toddlerhood, partly because it’s what I personally felt was the right thing to do, but also as I’m a lazy toad and frankly it seemed the path of least resistance and by far the easiest thing! One thing in particular that surprised me was how much feeding my second whilst pregnant with my third, and tandem feeding them for a few months after really seemed to help my (then) toddler, who tended to be rather grumpy and shouty, ease her through the transition of the arrival of a younger sister. But I think my biggest surprise is generally the huge amount of guilt breastfeeding seems to cause Mums, whether they do it, don’t, don’t want to try, try and don’t succeed, try and have problems but carry on, feed for a while, feed for a few years, find it easy (and feel bad for others who don’t)… I think the thing I’ll try to impress on every mother I meet for the rest of my life is that yes, breast is best, I’ve had fab experiences with it (along with a few ouch ones!), that support and help is out there, and not to be swayed by others reactions - but whatever your story never to feel bad or guilty, be informed, be open minded, do what you feel is right for your *unique* set of life parameters, but don’t let guilt step in to your relationship with feeding your child.

  3. Thank you ladies.

    Liz, Thank you for the compliments, and I dare say sacred with you. Hostile reactions ARE on the decline, but not gone yet. What's more common is just personal discomfort rather than 'being anti' and there lies the whole tangly mess of our culture's sexuality and body images.

    Nicki, I'm planning a break between feeding Ember and being pregnant - mostly because I'm missing MSG and gin! And YES to your message to mums. You would be a marvelous peer supporter. Mother really does know best - not mates or Granny or books or even midwives or doctors. We have known best for millenia and we still do. Sometimes, bottle feeding is the way forward for a family. For complicated reasons, we had to do mixed feeding for a while and the existence of formula milk saved my daughter's life.

    Thank you both again. x

  4. I can definately see the sunset colours there - when I teach portraiture I often use computer programs to turn peoples photo's into mosaics and it always surprises people the wealth of different colours that can be seen in a face, so the same would apply to a sunset too :)

    Looks like you might be on your way to learning that stepping back and looking at your art is a very important part of the creative process too, I am always telling my students to get up and walk to the other side of the sudio so they can see their work properly.

    often the students think that a painting is not working or that they have got the colours wrong, but when I get them to step back they suddenly see that they were right all along and there was nothing wrong with their work! (or they see an important detail that needs changing that wasn't so obvious when they were too close to the painting)

    Hmm I think I have the theme for my next blog post here :)

    As for breast feeding I have no problems with it at all, many of my female friends have breast fed in front of me and it seemed like a perfectly natural situation to me, but I guess some people are just too socially repressed to be able to accept that its normal to breastfeed in public!

    Unfortunately my wife has never been able to breast feed properly, mostly because our kids never seemed to be able to latch on properly - even with the help of midwives, so we had to switch to bottles on doctors advice to avoid malnourishment.

    It was a very upsetting time for my wife as she really wanted to breastfeed - but on the upside it meant I could share with the feeding duties which brought me closer to my kids :)

  5. Hi Lunar! It's funny how we might hate a piece we're working on and put it aside, then happen to catch it unexpectedly out of the corner of our eye, or in a different light and suddenly it DOES work.

    As for breastfeeding, I agree breast is best, but I know some mums have a lot of trouble and should not feel guilty if they can't. Having said that, I think perseverance is good, and NOT taking everyone else's advice as gospel...I remember in the hospital after mine were born, I think every midwife who came in had different advice. You have to find your own way (after all, you're both learning) and it takes a while. But it's worth it. I breast fed in public, not necessarily getting them out and waving them around (he he) but certainly not trying to hide what I was doing. I never had a negative reaction, and I did it in cafes and restaurants. I think it's mostly pretty ok here, though I did hear a story a little while ago that a guy in a cafe asked the owner to tell a breast-feeding mum to stop it or leave, and he was handed a takeaway coffee and told to go elsewhere if he didn't like it! If you want a man's opinion, I know I can speak for my hubby too, he thinks if anyone doesn't like it that's their problem, he reckons it's the most beautiful and natural thing in the world.

  6. Graham, thank you.Imagine how much faster I'd learn if I could actually get to your classes... I know to step back from my easel, but I didn't translate that to sitting at a desk. Fool!

    And thanks for your breastfeeding thoughts. There was a while when I didn't know if it could work out for me and I was so distressed by that thought, but my husband also enjoyed the bottle feeding - a benefit you don't often hear about.

    Lovely to hear your voice too, Christine. The cafe story made me laugh. My mum has a story of a friend who was asked to leave a cafe for breastfeeding. She came back the next day with ALL her breastfeeding mummy mates and they staged a feed-in!

    And I agree with your husband.

  7. I think our culture has a slightly messed up attitude to whether certain types of nudity are ok or not generally. I blame the Catholics!

    About the time the naked rambler was spending Christmas in prison in Scotland for trying to walk to John o'Groats in the buff I got to wander around Newcastle naked, with 1700 other nudey people and a police escort. Go figure...

    (Getting to the point) Aside from unhealthy psychological hangups, I think breastfeeding (or lack of) is one of the times our attitudes to nudity can do real physical harm, and not just to baby - I'm sure you know Mums can gain some protection against breast cancer from breastfeeding. Often cultures in less "developed" countries don't have these issues.

    It's good that the NHS and the law (2010 Equality Act) in the UK have pretty much come around to this, and I'm pleased that Corinne was willing and able to breastfeed Edie.

    We heard about a friend of a friend who was going to bottle-feed because it was "more convenient", and that just seemed weird to me.

    This (slightly sensationalist) Channel 4 programme on cross feeding is actually quite interesting: There's a bit about 35 minutes in where they go to the US deep south - "nursing your daughter will make her gay!". It makes the UK seem pretty progressive.

    Enough waffle. I'm liking the sunset.

  8. Hello - Yes, breast feeding was good in the long run, wasn't it? I am glad our society has got over almost all its weirdness about this.

    But given our experience I think hold back on always pushing the breast is best slogan. This works as a generalization, but on the individual level it can untrue, and pretty hurtfull. Without going in to our whole experience, when we decided that 'second best' (formula) might actually be necessary to keep our little one alive we didn't need the lie floating around we where somehow doing anything other than doing the very best thing. We did the best thing there was, and that involved formula and breast. Now she is as strong as a very small ox.

    And I completely get Graham - the chance to feed my daughter at that age was one of the best bits of my life so far, even at 3 in the morning. I missed it, Lunar, when you two figured out the breastfeeding!

  9. On an aside, I saw the naked rambler (and his companion) crossing the dornoch bridge driving to hospital when in labour with one of my girls, gave me a giggle between the contractions and the story entertained the midwives for some hours when we arrived!

  10. Tim, thank you. Personally, I'm tempted to blame some of the crazier Victorian ideas, but religion has played its part for sure. The notion of our bodies being inherently sinful/shameful has been pervasive and pernicious.
    Loving that you got your booty out with all those people. I assume there was a specific cause, rather than just giving your privates an airing.
    There are other cancers too (ovarian particularly) which women gain protection from by breastfeeding, and a host of health benefits for the baby which last for life.
    Having tried both methods, I can assure everyone that bottle feeding is not more convenient. It was such a relief when we got it sorted so everywhere I went I had plenty of milk, perfectly heated and hygienic. And the morning sterilising routine took up so much time!
    I wonder how the human race has got this far if nursing makes women gay...?
    Enough waffling from me too. And thanks.
    Thank you, my Ent. Yeah, I did feel a lot of pressure in the neonatal ward to breastfeed and it was hard to remember that if it didn't work I wouldn't have failed as a mum. We got there though, with your help :o).
    Don't see you so delighted at 3 in the morning when you get up so I can drop the night feeds now! Heroic, that's what it is; heroic. x
    Always good to giggle between contractions, Nicki. Apparently I also managed to sleep (and snore) ion the 3 minutes between mine!

  11. Lunar,
    This post really hit home. I had to have c-sections with both of my boys as they were predicted to be well over ten pounds, and a high risk specialist told me it was very dangerous for the child. One ended up being 9lbs 7 oz, the other 9lbs 13 oz. Not small, but I may have been able to do it. I have felt badly about that because I always thought it'd be natural maybe in some water, and then the reality struck in a big way.
    Due to the c-sections I put all the pressure on everything else. I'd breastfeed and it would be this huge bonding, loving, natural thing, and hopefully make up for the surgeries. And then my son was born. And he wouldn't latch on. I had every lactation specialist under the son, grabbing me, massaging me, turning him, twisting me, and still I held out hope. I didn't give up, it was just so important, a gift that I had to give him.
    I don't know how long this went on. We were home, and I was sitting in our library with the lights off. My son wasn't latching on still. I had a breast pump. I'm sure there was some postpartum issues involved, but suffice to say that I lost it. I was holding my son and sobbing quietly as my parents were in visiting, and sitting in the next room. My husband came in and said, "Can we stop this now?" as gently and as quietly as you can imagine. I looked at him, not having slept in a very long time, heaving, holding my baby and sobbing, thinking there is nothing natural about what is going on now. I just wanted to feed my baby. And I couldn't. And he couldn't. And they had all tried. And I was tired of feeling like I was less, that breast is best, that somehow if I just did it longer it would work. It wasn't working. And my son needed a mom to hold him without her heart beating out of her chest because it wasn't working.
    That moment, I nodded at my husband. He had the room/house cleared of everything nursing related. He knew how devastated I was, and he saw it every time that someone asked me if I was breastfeeding and I said, we "decided" to go with the bottle because it was easier. Easy had nothing to do with it, but it was easier to let people believe that than that I had failed him.
    My son is now six, and I made sure I fed him every, single one of his nighttime bottles. We cuddled, I sang to him.
    I did the best I could do, and as any mom, we always fail somewhere, maybe I'll fail better next time.
    My second son had exactly one chance to latch on. He didn't. He got the bottle. And he got a much stabler mother for the first few weeks of his life.
    As for seeing women breastfeed in public, I think it's wonderful. I wish I could have done it but after six years this month, I am at peace with it. I don't however assume that because someone isn't breastfeeding, it is their choice. I think motherhood is tough and gets tougher, and the less judgement on all fronts the better.

  12. Hey Lyra, a big thank you for writing your heart for us to see. Brave, I know.
    I've sat crying with my baby screaming with hunger at my breast and no milk arriving in her desperate mouth. I'll probably keep reliving that forever, and that's with the huge healing and wonder of finally, finally being able to breastfeed my girl.
    My heart goes out to you. 'Breast is best', yes, but formula milk is a good second best and sometimes a lifesaver. In the end it's the love that counts. You sound devoted to your sons, and I love the gentle wisdom of your husband. I know there were times after I'd given birth when I looked to my husband to make decisions because my mind was so blown by becoming a mum.
    Thank you for sharing your story, and yes, yes, yes to less judgement all round.

  13. I nursed all four of my kids for the first nine months of their lives. That being said, it was the most difficult thing I have ever experienced. I had mastitis, inverted nipples, babies who wouldn't latch on, you name it. My husband supported me because he knew how important it was to me but he would have sooner given me a case of formula, seeing how much pain I went through. I didn't really have any other emotional support. For me, the La Leche women were too hard core and knew I couldn't go down that route. Lucky for me, out of the clouds came a woman who was my fairy angel. I don't know if her lactation techniques are full proof but she allowed me the room to try many things and was present 24/7 to listen to my aches. That, alone, gave me peace of mind to continue.

    I think there's way too much pressure on women these days. We shouldn't have to start off feeling guilty. If my daughters are ever in this place, I hope to say, do what you can. It's all good.

  14. Hi MSB. Thanks for stopping by.
    It's such a pleasure to hear from and about all you heroine mummies :o). NINE months, FOUR times, with all that pain and difficulty (I can only imagine the joys of inverted nipples - ouch): definitely heroic. If only they weren't so darned lovable we could make our lives so much easier.
    I'm interested in this arising theme of how hard it is for partners to watch the mums suffer and sacrifice, through pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding. I'm mulling the idea of a peer support group for dads throughout this whole process and beyond. It seems so needed, but I'm a woman so it feels weird for me to give it the jump start. What does anyone else think?
    MSB, I know what you mean about the La Leche League. Hooray for them and all their very great work, but also hooray for their being other helpers available with less of an agenda when you need them.
    When I'm trained up as a Peer Supporter, it's my aim to help as your fairy angel helped you. If I can do that for one woman, I'm happy. And maybe there will be opportunities to help many women. And the whole family benefits if the mum can feed the baby comfortably and consistently.
    Speaking of which, I've been taking Domperidone to keep my milk going (long story) for a year now. This morning I took my last pill, so I'm on my own from here. Send me milky wishes... x
    Even more inspired from hearing from you, MSB. Thank you.x

  15. Hello !!

    Thanks for your lovely greeting on my blog :0)

    Congratulations on training to be a peer supporter. I knew next to nothing about babies when I had my son at 39. I knew I wanted to breastfeed, but imagined (as most of the literature seemed to suggest) that it would end around 6 months.

    When I had my boy I had to have an emergency C section and was in a lot of pain. Each shift change brought a new midwife with a different technique and conflicting advice. Once I got home I was at the mercies of an old school health visitor, months from retirement, who called my son a "drama queen" and suggested I shut the door on him and had a cup of tea :0( My son was on the lowest centile and I was persistently told to "top him up" with formula.

    Luckily my fantastically supportive husband called the Breastfeeding Network and within an hour a lovely woman called Sarah come around. What she showed me that afternoon became the basis for our whole parenting style - co-sleeping, slinging, and attachment. I can never thank her enough. Once I had the hang of it he really settled down and thrived.

    Eventually, through another Sarah who became a good friend (must be something about the name !) I discovered La Leche and the comfort of knowing other people committed to breastfeeding and able to give sound advice, or just commiserate through the hard times.

    My son is very sensitive and affectionate. He would not lie down to sleep on his own until he was eleven months old, and fed in small bursts, constantly rather than larger feeds. I relied a lot on my husband who is creative and understanding and found good ways to offer help - leaving me packed lunches, burping my boy while I ate my dinner, sitting in with us while I bathed my son together with me in the bath, and taking him for an hour or so on weekend mornings, just to play in the next room.

    Breastfeeding has been invaluable to us as a family. It has created a lovely bond between all three of us, and been a useful comfort to my boy as well as all the nutritional and immunological benefits.

    He is almost four now and still feeds to go to sleep, first thing in the morning, and at around half five when he gets a little tired and bored. I am ready for him to stop but have promised myself that I will let him decide naturally when it's time to call it a day. We are home educating so nursery / school is not an issue.

    I've never felt embarrassed about it, or had a single negative comment, but at some point we just naturally stopped doing it in public, when he was around three I think.

    Good luck to you in your training. It's so important - well done !

  16. Greetings, Snippety Giblets. Thank you for sharing your story here.
    You may be pleased to know that the Baby Friendly Initiative ( is working to ensure everyone you meet through pregnancy, birth and postnatally gives you the same advice, so there's less of the confusion you experienced.
    My daughter was called 'lazy' by more than one nurse in neonatal care (it turned out she had a posterior tongue tie which wasn't discovered until she was three weeks old), so I can imagine how it felt to hear you boy being called a 'drama queen'. I was very angry in a protective way, although also very polite in a British way!
    I aspire to be one of these Sarahs - although I won't change my name. It's great to hear how transformative this kind of support can be.
    Your husband sounds amazing. I've heard a lot of men saying they didn't know how to help, and it's those little practical things which can give the mum the mental space to just focus on her child.
    As I go through the Peer Support training and talk more about breastfeeding, my own attitudes are shifting. I have always been clear I wanted to have a break between breastfeeding and becoming pregnant again (planned for October, as much as these things can be), but now I'm less sure...
    Thanks for your encouragement. Hope to speak with you again.

  17. Wow. This thread is just amazing. I wish I could respond to everyone. To the women to had a har time breastfeeding I give my support and love. There was only one situation when I couldn't nurse my daughter. I had broken out in a terrible rash all over my body when she was about three weeks old. I finally had to take an antihistimine because I was weeping and tortured. A full body rash! What on earth was that about!? One of the side effects of the medication is that it seriously dehydrates you.

    I remember lying there with her and trying to nurse her and nothing came out. I was so miserable and in pain and my husband was terrified about how long I wouldn't have milk. A classic man- he wanted to DO something. I let her nurse on my empty breast while I hauled down a Guinness and a ton of water. After about half an hour my milk came back. I remember being so scared and feeling surreal. It never occurred to me that I wouldn't be able to feed my baby.

    All in all I have been pregnant or nursing for five and a half years! My son is gently weaning himself- and I'll admit that I'm going to help him along. My body is getting tired and needs to replenish. All of my energy being sucked out of my breasts has really changed my energy patterns and I need it to circulate the way it used to. I have this image of all this golden energy just pouring out of my breasts. That's how I end up so depleted at the end of the day.

    Golly I liked this thread!
    Love to all of you,

  18. Hi Claire. Yep, this is an amazing topic and it brings out the amazingness in all of us, it seems, whatever we end up actually doing (including those VIP dads).
    Who knows what the rash was about. Maybe something your body wanted to release so it didn't go into the milk? And hooray for Guinness. I used to buy those little half cans when I was pregnant - I craved just one every night :o). It was never so delicious before or since.
    I'm impressed at how you did what you needed to do to get your milk flowing again. A dry breast is a scary thing, but you solved it.
    Five and a half years is such an act of devotion. I've done thirteen months and I'm thinking about helping my girl to stop.
    The sense of depletion is no fun, but I love the thought of sending all that golden energy into our babies.
    Lovely to hear from you.

  19. Hi Lunar, I don't have an account so have to post under anonymous but it is Jenn here ;-) I am a huge advocate for bf but that said, also understand that it isn't always possible and women don't need the added guilt after such a valiant effort. I am in the minority group amongst my friends as most bottle feed but that is fine with me. Funny though, because of that, the pressure can be opposite and a couple of people ask me everytime I see them if I am still bf. My dream of allowing Emily to self wean is happening but we are still enjoying our two feeds a day and she is doing really well. I think there is this concept out there that bf is very natural and easy and although it is very natural, it is in every case I've heard very difficult especially during those first 6 weeks and we had an easy bf relationship from the start with a textbook latch and actually an oversupply of milk but the physical exhaustion and pain while toughening up make it a really tough go in the beginning. I was committed to working through that and didn't know if it was normal or not and if it would go away but am so thankful to have such a pleasant and rewarding bf relationship now. We have had our troubles with oversupply and allergens passing through breastmilk and I remember being at the end of my rope in the middle of the night early on when my oversupply was causing poor Emily to try and catch her breath and then having the milk come flooding out of her nose and resorting to calling the public health nurse's office in desparation. I am so thankful for the support of lactation consultants and mostly of Emily's pediatrician. Presented with a tough allergy like Emily's, most would have switched the babe to special formula right away but he advocated for breast for which I am so thankful. LLL was invaluable to me as well in the beginning as I didn't have many bf friends so it was good to meet other mom's who did ;-) There does seem to be a lot of conficting advice and mine is to do your research and trust your own instincts(as hard as that is to do, we have them!). You know what works best for you and your baby. As for bf in public, I did it all the time under cover of my wonderful Hooter Hider and it didn't seem to bother anyone. Once Emily got to the flashing age though I stopped feeding her in public and opted to go in the van or make sure she nursed before we left. Best of luck as you mentor others, I know you will be wonderful ;-)

  20. Hi Jenn, Thanks for popping in.
    Now my daughter's over one year, I get asked when I'll stop quite frequently too and even a nurse was shocked I'm still feeding her. I, too, would love her to self-wean. We'll see what happens...
    I've just had a thought that maybe breastfeeding is naturally difficult: maybe the need to form such a strong bond and to get help from other women is an advantage.
    Has any mum NOT felt at the end of her rope at some point? I distinctly remember my husband finding me weeping in the bathroom because I had run out of all reserves and felt I couldn't even walk any more.
    The theme on this post seems to be that breastfeeding is often difficult at first; that help and support can make a HUGE difference and that it's always worth it when it works. Importantly, it also seems to be worth giving yourself a break and switching to formula when you've had enough of trying.
    And may I say what a wonderful name 'Hooter Hider' is! We're at the flashing stage and just letting the world cope with it. No-one's combusted with embarrassment yet...
    Thanks for sharing, Jenn, and for your confidence in me. I'm really inspired by everyone here and will certainly be doing my best.

  21. Hi hun, great piece of art, i love it! Very fresh, would look good in any home I think :)

    I breastfed little one for 9 was Isis-Sophia who decided she preferred food...couldnt quite believe it as I was intending to feed her for a year at least. She kept on pushing me away from her and reaching for solids, so had to give it up. I always had a good flow of milk so that wasnt the issue, she is just a typical McFarlane(dad)/Jamaican girl in that she LOVES food, and nothing bland either, she wants chili/garlic/spices/herbs...bless her. I did breastfeed her in public but as my boobs are v small, even when BFing, i always had to expose myself a LOT in order for Isis to latch on properly which was a pain in the neck. I once sat next to a woman in Pret a Manger who had HUGE breasts and her baby was on her lap and her breast was peeping out from under her jumper all the way to her thigh and she had instant latch on....looks a lot more practical! Lovely to hear you are becoming a peer support volunteer, they do great work!

  22. Thanks, Renske. Ickle Pickle's keen on chili, too :o). I had the same experience as you. Was very envious of my more-endowed friend feeding hands-free from a papoose! I'd been walking along with her for a couple of minutes before I even noticed.
    Good to hear from you.

  23. I wasnt sure if I would breastfeed but thought I would give it a latched on minutes after birth and I thought I had it sorted! if only! discharged several hours after our birth and home alone just the three of us and baby wouldnt feed... I cried, she cried...we all cried. I was determined to give my baby the best start but felt such a faliure I couldnt feed her. I called the midwife and the ntc for help to no avail and finally sent my husband out to buy formula...and relaxed in the notion help was coming...i gave it one more try, and at last baby fed!!:-) the next week was hard...more crying and a latch that took two of us, until finally we were diagnosed with tonuge tie and oral thrush. was diagnosed and treated things began to improve (gradually)I often forget about this period when I think of breastfeding though...(and the times later when I cried when baby would bite during teething too!) Its funny but what I do remember is my tiny baby... looking down on her so comforted and happy as I fed her myself, its a bond so strong and at 12 months (when in honesty the biting had really gotten too much) I really missed that time together, almost grieved it. Breastfeeding isnt easy for most of us but it is rewarding for both mother and child. xx


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